Curse

Knightsaber Sith · Aug 20, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

In early Factions development, we were assured the focus would be on PvE. It turned out to be a highly PvP oriented game. I suspect that Nightfall will also be highly PvP oriented, with PvE very much an afterthought.

The reason is, players interested in PvE have already gone elsewhere and it will be difficult if not impossible to lure them back. GW is now known as a PvP game, and it makes sense to play to the strong suit from a marketing standpoint.

I really don't think Anet would be stupid enough to make all campaigns pvp focused in the future, give them some credit. I expect that if Nightfall's pve aspect doesn't quite live upto Prophecies, it'll definitely atleast be better than Factions. And although most pve focused players have complained about the quality of the pve content in Factions ad nauseum, I've never heard any of them actually quit GW. They just hang out in Tyria.

Hand of Ruin · Aug 20, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I usually use henches because they are much more reliable than human players. They will never rush ahead, won't complain or fight, won't leave and throw tantrums, won't beg when I get a good drop... Henches > people anyday.

Although I hate hencing missions, so I use PUGS for that, but for all the little side quests I use henches.

WasAGuest · Aug 20, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

I really don't think Anet would be stupid enough to make all campaigns pvp focused in the future, give them some credit. I expect that if Nightfall's pve aspect doesn't quite live upto Prophecies, it'll definitely atleast be better than Factions. And although most pve focused players have complained about the quality of the pve content in Factions ad nauseum, I've never heard any of them actually quit GW. They just hang out in Tyria.

I agree that many have not left and migrated back to Tyria, but some have quit. My entire guild went the way of the Dodo for a good while. These rescent events have brought them back with some new interest... though oddly, the PvP weekend events, they are gone again... like this weekend /sigh.

Anet also knows, that after Factions (insert ad nauseum) horrid PvE content, Nightfall will be the make or break for many PvEers. If it's not the holy grail that makes up for Factions, many, including myself will find themselves hard pressed to support Chapter 4 and onward. Anet knows this, and they can see the "bigger" PvE online games sporting 6 millions paying subs (the fools

paying to play a game) whereas GW is counting Proph and Factions to get 2 million counts; in other words ~1 million customers with both chapters.

For those that don't know, "~" means estimate, and those figures are not outta my bum, those are from Anet's press release. Anet didn't say Factions had 2 million, they said Guild Wars had 2 million. Guild Wars is the name both chapters carry. Therefore, the 2 million includes Chapter 1 and 2.

Skyy High · Aug 20, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

The OP is hysterical; for the last 3 months before Factions' release, finding a party for anything other than major quests, or cookie-cutter farming builds, was ridiculously time consuming. There is nothing new about Factions' PvE.

Now...I'm hopeful that Nightfall will add new party-forming options, which will let the people who want to quest meet up more easily, thus partially alleviating this problem.

Sli Ander · Aug 20, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

The profession quests on Shin Jea Island were the incarnation of grind, doing the same thing, over and over. Nothing in all of Tyria was as boring as those.

I'll use this quote, cause its convenient, though this is towards all the guys who say that factions has more pve content than prophecies.
Sure, it probably does. I didn't sit there and count, but that is besides the point.
I had some reasons typed out, but this example will show what I mean better:

In Prophecies you go from pre-searing to fighting the charr. But then you have to retreat over the mountains, so you have to get the dwarves to help(which means you help them later). Then you help the Krytans for a place to live, which leads you to the desert, to ascend, to Glint, to the source of all your trouble, and THEN you go help the dwarves.

Factions goes like this: Join Monastary, do quests which lead you past locked gates. Do more quests. And some more. Do a couple Missions that show you who you'll be fighting later on. Leave the Island, kill Afflicted and do some quests until you get to the missions. Start to really discover what the problem is, get closer to the stars, kill bad guy, end game.

They're both the same, essentially. But Prophecies has a much bigger lead up, they actually take the time to immerse your character in the world in which they live. It's the same plot line, but with more twists. PvE is about the story. Prophecies was an immersive world of 5 or 6 stories, while Factions is a straightforward single story.
I'm having fun with a lvl 20 Tyrian in Cantha, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting interested in starting anyone in Cantha, just because of Shing Jea. That lack of lead-up story telling just keeps it from being interesting to me. I like Cantha, but I hope that Nightfall outshines it by a good measure.

Amy Awien · Aug 20, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

And that's why I skipped most of those profession quests. But at least you have the option to skip them.

You could skip them in presearing, if you wanted to. The Tyrian profession quests weren't boring and didn't feel like grind and I didn't expect their Canthan counterparts to be so bad.
Besides, in an RPG you normally do any quest you can get, unless it conflicts with your character.

Quote:

And I wasnt the one who kept complaining about lack of level 20 content in Tyria yet complain that Factions has no content even though it's mostly level 20 content.

Not sure that anyone in this thread complained about the lack of level 20 content in Tyria. Someone mentioned their friends went back to Tyria because they didn't like Cantha much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

The line I quoted referred to "going back to Tyria". One wouldn't cross over to Cantha from Tyria unless they were level 20, as that is the level that you should be on the mainland.

The trip is from Lion's Arch, your character would be around 14 then. It doesn't fit in the story to go to Cantha so early, but it is possible.

You seem so focussed on this level-20 content, there is more content to be enjoyed before those final levels. All in all Tyria has just more story and variation and less repeating the same thing then Cantha, or at least that is how it feels.

The Canthan scenery is excellent though

Quote:

For pure comparison purposes: ....

For Prophecies you only mention high level area's ... and you forget the whole Sorrow's Furnace and Titan line of quests. On the Canthan side, you've added a bunch of PvP missions that do not belong in a PvE talk.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 20, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Not sure that anyone in this thread complained about the lack of level 20 content in Tyria. Someone mentioned their friends went back to Tyria because they didn't like Cantha much.

I dont get it. There's lack of content in Factions, so you people rather go back to Tyria where's there's even less level 20 content (And yes I bring up the level 20 issue because I assume most of your characters are level 20 now)

It's strange to complain about lack of content in Factions...but yet go back to old content that you've done before a million times.

And a lot of you cant seem to understand that new Chapters would have to have more level 20 content overall because with each chapter, people will have more and more level 20 characters. Imagine buying a chapter and finding that your level 20 characters can only play half of the content. Boy would you really be complaining about content then.

Sli Ander · Aug 20, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I dont get it. There's lack of content in Factions, so you people rather go back to Tyria where's there's even less level 20 content (And yes I bring up the level 20 issue because I assume most of your characters are level 20 now)

It's strange to complain about lack of content in Factions...but yet go back to old content that you've done before a million times.

And a lot of you cant seem to understand that new Chapters would have to have more level 20 content overall because with each chapter, people will have more and more level 20 characters. Imagine buying a chapter and finding that your level 20 characters can only play half of the content. Boy would you really be complaining about content then.

Referring to the text I bolded: Maybe its because that old content is...better? If that old content can still interest someone despite numerous playings while Factions can't hold their attention despite new content, then something is wrong. The country of Cantha simply can't hold its own against the entertainment value of 3 different nations/countries.

Also, if a country was more spread out(like in Prophecies) so that the lesser percentage of the country were 'level 20' material, wouldn't that simply give greater incentive to build a character in that country? People would simply bring their Tyrian level 20's across and set to killing monsters if it were mostly 'level 20' material, never bothering to start a character there.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 20, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

Also, if a country was more spread out(like in Prophecies) so that the lesser percentage of the country were 'level 20' material, wouldn't that simply give greater incentive to build a character in that country? People would simply bring their Tyrian level 20's across and set to killing monsters if it were mostly 'level 20' material, never bothering to start a character there.

The difference is this. With each chapter, you accumulate more and more level 20 characters. So each chapter has to have the bulk of it being level 20 content. New characters that you create will still be able to experience the level 20 content as they level up. New characters wont miss out on anything. It's a win-win situation.

But if each chapter was like in Prophecies, a whole chunk of the game won't be played by the imported characters. How fun is it for a level 20 character to fight level 1-19 monsters? Most of the characters will miss out on a lot of content. And for what? Because you wanted to prolong the leveling and lower level content? Level 20 characters lose out here.

EDIT: Maybe ANET should give the option of starting a character in Tyria even with "foreign" characters. That way you people who want your prolonged leveling experience can have that and not screw it up for everyone else.

Sli Ander · Aug 20, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

The difference is this. With each chapter, you accumulate more and more level 20 characters. So each chapter has to have the bulk of it being level 20 content. New characters that you create will still be able to experience the level 20 content as they level up. New characters wont miss out on anything. It's a win-win situation.

But if each chapter was like in Prophecies, a whole chunk of the game won't be played by the imported characters. How fun is it for a level 20 character to fight level 1-19 monsters? Most of the characters will miss out on a lot of content. And for what? Because you wanted to prolong the leveling and lower level content? Level 20 characters lose out here.

EDIT: Maybe ANET should give the option of starting a character in Tyria even with "foreign" characters. That way you people who want your prolonged leveling experience can have that and not screw it up for everyone else.

Only thing I can say against this is: Aren't they supposed to be standalones? While linking campaigns should be handled(i.e. Lion's arch quest to Cantha), the primary purpose of each chapter is to create an independent game. If theres not enough reason to start a character in that area, it simply becomes an expansion. If we need more 'level 20' areas, they can always be added later, like Sorrows Furnace.

Also I'd also thought that we should be able to bring 'foreign' characters through other chapters from the start. People do immigrate, after all. And there was that Krytan in Ascalon(though thats an easier placement than from across the sea)It would be nice if that were implemented with the core classes at some point.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 20, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

Only thing I can say against this is: Aren't they supposed to be standalones? While linking campaigns should be handled(i.e. Lion's arch quest to Cantha), the primary purpose of each chapter is to create an independent game. If theres not enough reason to start a character in that area, it simply becomes an expansion. If we need more 'level 20' areas, they can always be added later, like Sorrows Furnace.

Also I'd also thought that we should be able to bring 'foreign' characters through other chapters from the start. People do immigrate, after all. And there was that Krytan in Ascalon(though thats an easier placement than from across the sea)It would be nice if that were implemented with the core classes at some point.

I think it was a mistake on their part to call them standalone. Obviously, they're not completely separate games. I agree with you that they're glorified expansions. By the way Sorrow's Furnace was only added because Prophecies was going to go for a whole year without a Chapter and extra content was needed.

Amy Awien · Aug 20, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

It's strange to complain about lack of content in Factions...but yet go back to old content that you've done before a million times.

I don't actually go back, I might start a new character there, but at the moment I am playing through Cantha with my Tyrian ranger.

Quote:

... new Chapters would have to have more level 20 content overall because with each chapter, people will have more and more level 20 characters.

I do understand this, and I appreciate it, and even though I think content is lacking, I also think they they did well in their approach of the problem of making the content available to both young Canthan as well as veteran Tryrian characters.

Rabid China Girl · Aug 20, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

I believe, overall, that Factions provides more of a challenge for players in PvE. I think this doesn't bode well with many because it is a little difficult to organize a party, and not everything can be done on the first try (if the second). People lack the patience to handle a lot of the PvE content...

... I agree that henchies are more reliable, and I will pick them up if I don't have the patience to spam, "LFG ------" in town. But I often try nonetheless before I take up a team of henchies because I enjoy the human element of the game. And I don't mind a failure or two. If people are really enjoying the game, then failure brings us together, and the game is more entertaining. I don't know what it is, though, but such events are rare... as most failures are countered with, "WTF WTF NOOOB" or rage quitters. I mean, the term "rage quit" wasn't so common in Prophecies, I believe..

For some reason, I thought Factions was going to be more PvP oriented before it was released. I don't know where I got that idea, but I wasn't so surprised by it as most people seem to be. I enjoy most of the competitive nature of Factions, and there is still so much PvE content... but I believe it is less developed... cannon fodder, if you will. The story barely holds itself together, the characters (Togo, Danika, Shiro, etc.) are lacking character... and the voice acting just went to hell.

I see so many people complain about Factions in Local channels, so much more than they had in Prophecies.. and it bothers me that many of these complaints seem racial. People complain that the game is too Asian-looking, make racial comments about the game (often it is directed at Chinese) that are less than complimentary (would you say Tyria is too Western looking? Elona is too African?). This may all be fueled by the frustration of PvE challenges.. but I think it is all uncalled for. I was never happy with how the game portrayed the Asian continent (a big freaking ghetto) and what not... or how stereotypical many of the characters looked (could the guys get any more androgenous? Could the girls have any bigger teeth?). Okay, some of the designs look fine (if not better than before), but I'm talking about.. say, the elementalists (male and female)? The male rangers? Some new designs just look goofy! Is that really how people think we look?! But I'm going off on a tangent...

... er, just my thoughts there. I agree that Factions seems lacking much of what Prophecies had, but I can't say I don't enjoy playing Factions. It is, after all, still an entertaining way to spend free time.

Xenrath · Aug 20, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

I think the admins have commented elsewhere they've noticed a general disquiet across all the GW sites/forums, since Factions came out. I'm guessing it wasn't like that for Prophecies. In other words, I think most people were happy with the original overall, with some gripes maybe.

Anet will have noticed this too, if they pay any attention, so hence those quotes from Gaile and hopefully thus they'll do something about the PvE and make it better - more like Prophecies in some ways I hope, though I doubt it will be as large a game world because Prophecies had a lot more development time (years even). If they don't care at all they'll lose sales which is what keeps this franchise going.. no subscriptions remember.

Considering that general disquiet, they'd have to be pretty stupid to ignore it and carry on the same course - it would hit them where it hurts, in the sales department and put off segments of the existing customers from buying more chapters, so it's in their best interest to get it right this time.

Amity and Truth · Aug 20, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

I'm quite surprised to see that this thread did not get hijacked by the fanboi crowd yet. Normally they pop up within 15 Minutes of the OP and turn the thread into an extreme flame festival.

It is not that Factions lack Highlevel Content as almost everyting of it is geared towards and around Level 20. It is simply that the Factions endgame content is dull and few in numbers. There are basically only the Elitemissions and accessing them is still very flawed. If not for the GH Bug those would be utterly deserted (even with, they're mostly empty).

But in my opinion, Factions had one major flaw. Lack of Textures. Having to walk through a city built with the intention of a maze is okay. But having to see the same old texture again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
So after you've left Slumcity you see a new texture and then head into the Kurzick and Luxon Area. So let's start with the Luxon Area. Green. Green. Green. Green again. Green. Green. Green Green again. Yep, just like kaineng the same texture again and again.
Head over to the Kurzick Area. Black. Black. Black. Black. Black. Black. Bleach. Black. Black. Bleach. Black. Yep. Same as with Kaineng, Luxon Area and the whole rest of Factions. It's one single texture over and over again. The areas within one theme all completely look the same.

Add in poor map design without much thinking behind it. Why the hell do the Outcasts roam the Crater in such large masses? Why are there so many Crimson Skulls on the Tutorial Island? Why (!!!) are there 10 Onis guarding a bridge inbetween a plentitude of bridges that no one ever has cross!?
Sorry to say but the mob placement is just *hold a button and randomly click somewhere*.

/edit:
My decision of Nightfall will be to wait for the first impressions of my Alliance. Every single one of them is severely disappointed by Factions and besides the claims of better sales, the actual number of players seems to have faded away. Mind you, sales don't equal amount of players in a direct way. If 1.000.000 people buy the expansion and stop playing it after 2 weeks it's still empty in Factions.

Minus30 · Aug 20, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

tbh i'm quite happy with factions as i have a rather active guild and active alliance and always able to help ppl on missions quests etc...
Also i really like the title feature, it gives you an extra goal in the game...

LumpOfCole · Aug 20, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

The only times I see American servers empty are around 8am EST.

Kakumei · Aug 20, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You could skip them in presearing, if you wanted to. The Tyrian profession quests weren't boring and didn't feel like grind and I didn't expect their Canthan counterparts to be so bad.
Besides, in an RPG you normally do any quest you can get, unless it conflicts with your character.

I'm not sure of any game where you're forced to do sidequests; and you're certainly not forced to do any profession quests beyond your primary and your one chosen secondary in Factions.

Quote:

You seem so focussed on this level-20 content, there is more content to be enjoyed before those final levels. All in all Tyria has just more story and variation and less repeating the same thing then Cantha, or at least that is how it feels.

But I'm not referring to total content. I already said that Tyria has more absolute content than Cantha does; that's not under debate. I'm saying that Cantha has far, far more high-level content than Tyria does, and I don't know about you, but I would much much rather repeat high-level than mid-level content (doing Maguuma over and over? no thank you).

Quote:

For Prophecies you only mention high level area's ... and you forget the whole Sorrow's Furnace and Titan line of quests. On the Canthan side, you've added a bunch of PvP missions that do not belong in a PvE talk.

Yes, I forgot the Titan quests; my mistake. And true, they are some of the better content Tyria has to offer, I still haven't finished LDD. Sorrow's Furnace is included among the Southern Shiverpeaks, though I did not mention it specifically.

On the Canthan side, if you take out the PvP ones, you're still left with more content: just removing the two Competitives and the Alliance Battles still leaves a hefty list.

**cosyfiep** · Aug 20, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I highly doubt that when I make my nightfall character (IF I buy that expansion) that I will take said character to Cantha, however; I would take it to Tyria---there is more there in my opinion than just killing the same old monsters over and over again (more afflicted anyone???---get tired of them after the slums and then again in the luxon and kurzick mission....please more different monsters!!!!). Cantha is just tooo small and lacks story that tyria didnt. I know lots of people skipped the jungle, but I LIKE killing the trolls and spiders----they were different from the dolyaks! though wasnt much happy with those dang devours making a reapperance in the desert.....and since the level is lower for areas like the jungle and kryta, my not level 20 (or not a solo character) can go there alone and kill stuff.....pug/henchie less. Not so in cantha.....and shing jing doesnt count.
my 2cents worth.

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 20, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Most of you arent complaining about actual issues but about your own personal tastes. Prophecies PVE isnt any much different than Factions PVE. In fact, they're both very boring and repetitive.

It wasnt the "lack" of content that drove you back to Tyria...it's your own biases and your unwillingless to let go of Prophecies. I mean, one guy is nitpicking about textures as being a "major flaw of Factions"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

But in my opinion, Factions had one major flaw. Lack of Textures. Having to walk through a city built with the intention of a maze is okay. But having to see the same old texture again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
So after you've left Slumcity you see a new texture and then head into the Kurzick and Luxon Area. So let's start with the Luxon Area. Green. Green. Green. Green again. Green. Green. Green Green again. Yep, just like kaineng the same texture again and again.
Head over to the Kurzick Area. Black. Black. Black. Black. Black. Black. Bleach. Black. Black. Bleach. Black. Yep. Same as with Kaineng, Luxon Area and the whole rest of Factions. It's one single texture over and over again. The areas within one theme all completely look the same.

Since when have textures become a major flaw? I've also seen people who have said they simply didnt like Factions because of the Asian setting. And they had the nerve to proclaim that the PVE was horrible because they just didnt like looking at all the asian stuff.

My point is to not confuse your personal biases with actual issues.